//
Uncategorized

>Huckabee asked if Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers!

>If you were to listen to Hugh Hewitt, Huckabee’s campaign is over now. Of course, Hewitt (and now Matt Drudge) has been trying to talk Huckabee’s campaign down from the moment he began rising in the polls and posed a threat to his man Romney. Some commentators cannot believe that anyone would even say such a thing and wonder where in the world Huckabee came up with this. Well, it was not made up out of thin air.

Christian apologist James White has been posting on Mormon theology this week. He recently posted an item entitled, “Does the LDS Church Teach Lucifer is a Spirit Offspring of Elohim, and Hence the Spirit-Brother of Jesus?“. Read the post in full for yourself to gain the context but here is a bottom-line excerpt:

“Jesus is the first begotten spirit child of the exalted Elohim, a man who lived on another planet and became a god. Lucifer was likewise one of the spirit offspring of Elohim, as are you and I. This makes us all spirit brothers of Jesus, including Lucifer. Hence, it is a true statement that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers. I have not found any statements from the General Authorities ‘clarifying’ this teaching. But I would like to offer the following as evidence of the doctrine in the teachings of the LDS Church, taken again from my book Letters to a Mormon Elder p. 207: …” [see his post for the evidence he mentions]

I do not have time to comment much further right now. I just wanted to point out that Huckabee did not just make this idea up. It is not bigoted, contrary to what some commentators are charging, to ask the question that Huckabee asked.

Advertisements

Discussion

13 thoughts on “>Huckabee asked if Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers!

  1. >Perhaps Huckabee may have used the question for both political purposes and to clear the air regarding what Mormons believe. I have done some work with Bill McKeever long ago, he runs the MRM, Mormonism Research Ministry, and he as a former Salt Lake City LDS taught us many many things regarding what the LDS Mormons believed. The fact that the Mormons teach that Lucifer is the spirit brother of Jesus was one of the first things he taught us. Interestingly, when the LDS come to evangelize and they go through their programs with the public, this particular topic is uniquely not discussed. Further, the Mormons of old used to cling to their separatist ways and insisted on being known as “Mormons”. However, since the late 80s, when the LDS church was experiencing slow growth, and they were only about 12 million strong at that time, the Mormon church decided to change their approach and the way they evangelized. Since the early 90s, they have now embraced the term “christian”, where before they differentiated themselves from this term, and have now embraced it and consider themselves to be the only “true” christians. So, perhaps Huckabee, knowing his christian history, apologetics and theology, took an opportunity to distinguish what Mormons really believe in light of traditional historic christianity? I don’t think it was a mistake for him to point out this distinction, neither do I conider it intolerant or bigoted.

    Posted by hylander | January 9, 2008, 4:23 am
  2. >”P.S. I’m enjoying the blog too much now. I am going to have to delete the bookmark on my computer so I don’t keep going back to it all day!!!!! You’ve done a good job here Jeff.”Right on. I’ve been enjoying it more since I’ve had someone like you to push back on what I’ve had to say.

    Posted by Jeff Wright | December 15, 2007, 11:18 pm
  3. >—————————————–He is a respected Christian apologist….—————————————–I suppose this depends on who you ask. I am familiar with “Dr.” White. In fact, I had to read his book “The Roman Catholic Controversy” in my undergrad program. Needless to say he is seen as a somewhat controversial figure, although I can’t disagree with everything he says. He makes some good points. I guess I would categorize him as “A Christian apologist.”My biggest beef with him is on two fronts. On his website he touts the many debates he has had with Roman Catholics. However, the opposition also brags about this as his “radical” quotes are used to show the weaknesses in his arguments. This particular book demonstrates some of the weaknesses in his methods as well as inconsistencies in his arguments, but who doesn’t do that occasionally. :-)I recognize him as a brother in Christ and appreciate his efforts to defend the faith. I go to school with a guy over here who is from the US. He is also an apologist, and a very good one. He is just finishing his PhD and is moving to Oxford where he will head up a ministry where debates about the faith will take place on campus at Oxford University. He uses very sound exegesis and a clear intellectual approach that doesn’t come across as being a fundy. He is forming a debate now with Richard Dawkins. It is important as an apologist to be able to interact with these intellectual idiots who deny the faith. My beef with White is he would do good in a church setting debating issues everyone already holds to. But in a setting where he would have to offer clear, unbiased evidence for his exegesis, he wouldn’t last long.I was just questioning a source there! :-)P.S. I’m enjoying the blog too much now. I am going to have to delete the bookmark on my computer so I don’t keep going back to it all day!!!!! You’ve done a good job here Jeff.

    Posted by me | December 15, 2007, 2:29 pm
  4. >”By the way, who is Jim White and what weight is he supposed to have in any argument?”He is a respected Christian apologist who has published two books on Mormonism from an orthodox Christian perspective. Is the Mormon My Brother?: Discerning the Differences Between Mormonism and Christianity (1997) and Letters to a Mormon Elder (2007). He recently posted something on his blog concerning the Jesus and Lucifer issue so I cited it to show that it is a commonly mentioned issue and not something that Huckabee just made up out of nowhere. It is my understanding that Lucifer is discussed in The Pearl of Great Price, The Book of Moses, chapter 4 so I will check it out for myself if the library has a copy of it today.

    Posted by Jeff Wright | December 15, 2007, 1:53 pm
  5. >Arkadelphia, Texarkana, Hawairkansas, West Arkinia, British Columbansas, the People’s Arkublic of Chiansas, and Arkambique?Did I read that right? Has he pastored in every compound-Arkansas place on earth?

    Posted by Nathan P. Gilmour | December 14, 2007, 8:41 pm
  6. >”He graduated magna cum laude from Ouachita Baptist University, completing his bachelors degree in 2½ years before attending Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas. He has honorary doctorate degrees from John Brown University and Ouachita Baptist University. Prior to his political career, Huckabee was pastor of several Southern Baptist churches in Arkadelphia, Texarkana, and Pine Bluff, Arkansas.”Eh…baptists. Whaddaya gonna do? 😉

    Posted by Jeff Wright | December 14, 2007, 7:43 pm
  7. >So, if someone asks the question it doesn’t make them a bigot but a fundy? Interesting. I would be careful about throwing that term around. From a few things I’ve read, Huckabee seems like he was a pretty moderate SBCer (which I know is prob. still pretty conservative).

    Posted by J.Wizzle | December 14, 2007, 6:31 pm
  8. >—————————————Hugh Hewitt called the remark old-line bigotry and said that it would be the same as asking if the Jews killed Jesus or do Catholics pray to Mary?—————————————First of all, I think we should all consider the source when comments like this are made. One of the great blessings of living in England is that Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and all those who aspire to be like them (Hewitt) do not have a presence here (for obvious reasons). I was so committed to their programs and their rhetoric for a long time. However, with each passing year, especially during election years, I began to notice some things I did not like. Having learned through my education to critically listen to others, I noticed that these guys are simply sensationalists who bark about the most controversial topics on the street “in order to make a profit.”Now they would like for you to believe that they are doing all this for the good of the country but I hope everyone is able to see through that. I will say, I do miss Rush now and then because he is the epitome of arrogance and brashness and NOBODY does it like he does! Hannity on the other hand is way over the top. I think Bush could execute his entire cabinet on the front lawn of the White House tomorrow morning and Hannity would defend him.Anyway, these guys are sensationalists. That’s all they are. They are there to guide our thinking and sway our opinions and I assure you very few of their ideas are truly biblical. So don’t sweat it. I try to use Scripture to guide my ideas. The Today show does the same thing but what can we expect from lost people? They wait for Christians to make stupid remarks like this. When we act this way we set up a slow pitch and they knock it out of the park. Now that doesn’t mean that we Christians stop standing for the truth and defending the word of God and pointing to the Savior. On the contrary, we must press on. But someone running for President who is a believer and can influence and impact our country for Christ needs to be a bit more strategic.—————————————There is the possibility that Huckabee knew that this was an inflammatory issue out there regarding Mormonism. Maybe he knew that this was a past teaching of Mormonism and that he could make Mormonism look silly by drawing attention to this issue and therefore hurt Romney by associating him with such things. Maybe he purposefully planted that question in the interview. I do not know. Other politicians have a record of doing such things. I do not know if Huckabee does or not. —————————————Hmmmmm. I wonder? Let’s see, here’s his bio. “He graduated magna cum laude from Ouachita Baptist University, completing his bachelors degree in 2½ years before attending Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas. He has honorary doctorate degrees from John Brown University and Ouachita Baptist University. Prior to his political career, Huckabee was pastor of several Southern Baptist churches in Arkadelphia, Texarkana, and Pine Bluff, Arkansas.”You think he knew? Of course he knew, that’s why he did it. This is why I say it was a careless, stupid mistake. THis is not old line bigotry, this is old line fundamentalism. I don’t care if the world calls us bigots, they will. I just hate it when they’re able to do so when we have been this stupid and can be mistaken for bigots. Huckabee needs to lose the mean spirited, fundamentalist baggage. He knew exactly what he was doing.

    Posted by me | December 14, 2007, 3:41 pm
  9. >”He needs to get into political issues and turn the attention away from religion. He can’t win on that one. He might impress you and I, but it won’t win him an election.” Maybe so. I’m more concerned with the notion that asking a question of this nature is “bigotry.” This is why I said, “I just wanted to point out that Huckabee did not just make this idea up. It is not bigoted, contrary to what some commentators are charging, to ask the question that Huckabee asked.”I think I can safely say that the commentators who were charging Huckabee with bigotry would have labeled this question as bigotry whether it was asked by a presidential candidate or an average person. Is it really bigoted to ask if Jesus and the devil are brothers according to Mormonism? I don’t think it is. Using “devil” makes it sensationalistic. He would have been more accurate if he had said Lucifier rather than the devil. Hugh Hewitt called the remark old-line bigotry and said that it would be the same as asking if the Jews killed Jesus or do Catholics pray to Mary? If a person is truly ingorant, I do not think that either of these questions is bigoted. I’m more inclined to call the ‘didn’t the Jews kill Jesus’ question bigoted if the person actually has animosity toward Jews. But is it truly bigoted to ask if Catholics pray to Mary or if Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers? I think this is a misuse of the term and an overreaction. If someone dislikes Mormons and makes a snide remark like ‘yeah, those goofy Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers!’ then I can see why people are going to come after a person for saying that. But to call someone a bigot for asking the question is way over the top in my opinion. Is this political correctness run amok? I’d have to think about it some more to determine what would make someone call a person a bigot for asking this question. Whatever the reason is, I think calling someone a bigot for asking this question is an unhealthy symptom of something gone wrong.Now, I am not totally naive. There is the possibility that Huckabee knew that this was an inflammatory issue out there regarding Mormonism. Maybe he knew that this was a past teaching of Mormonism and that he could make Mormonism look silly by drawing attention to this issue and therefore hurt Romney by associating him with such things. Maybe he purposefully planted that question in the interview. I do not know. Other politicians have a record of doing such things. I do not know if Huckabee does or not. As a politician, should he have asked this question? No. Does a question like that need to be a part of the presidential election? No. Should voters determine whether or not Romney believes this before voting for him? No. Perhaps he knew exactly what he was doing and asked the question maliciously. I don’t know. As a politician he should not have gone there. The political ramifications of the remark were not my point. I am more concerned with whether or not it is a widespread notion that it truly is bigotry to ask a question like this. The questioner’s intention does matter. If the person already knows the answer and is merely trying to ding the religion, that’s one thing. But asking a fair question about a religion is another thing. It is not bigotry. Gotta go.

    Posted by Jeff Wright | December 14, 2007, 12:53 pm
  10. >The point is whether Huckabee’s statement was representative of a professional who is in the biggest race of his life. You can say Romney’s playing the victim card if you like, and I agree he certainly is. But the only reason he is able to do so is because Huckabee, in the public forum, gave him a slow pitch. You hit the nail right on the head. Romney will play this to the hilt. Huckabee needs to be smart enough not to give him the ammunition to do so. Just a few months ago Huckabee was a long shot who didn’t have much of a prayer. Now, with some good backing and publicity (prior to this) he has come to the front. If he wants to remain there he will learn to play politics and quit playing apologist. No apologist will ever get elected President! He needs to let others do that. Huckabee’s remark was foolish. It may be true and it may be something people need to think about. But it doesn’t need to come from him! Perhaps he will wise up and learn this is not a religious race. If it is a religious race he will certainly lose. First, because the conservative evangelical vote is not enough to get him in on its own. Second, if the unbelieving crowd has to make a decision based on faith and looks at the most recent example of a believing President, they will certainly not vote for him. He needs to get into political issues and turn the attention away from religion. He can’t win on that one. He might impress you and I, but it won’t win him an election. It is SO hard for conservative evangelicals to understand this.

    Posted by me | December 14, 2007, 2:16 am
  11. >”By the way, who is Jim White”A Christian apologist. You can find out more about him here: http://www.aomin.org/“and what weight is he supposed to have in any argument?Most often it is the fact that he uses Biblical exegesis to back up what he is saying. He does his home work.I don’t think Huckabee made a mistake. He asked a question. Both Huckabee and the interviewer were shocked that this one question is what everyone decided to focus on out the entire interview. I think that Romney made the mistake for playing a victim over…scratch that. He didn’t make a mistake. He is being dishonest by doing that but made the smart political choice of playing the victim so that he can play the victim/martyr in the media.

    Posted by J.Wizzle | December 13, 2007, 11:12 pm
  12. >I think Huckabee made a mistake. This is the typical evangelical snide insert to try and pit conservatives against Romney based on a theological idea. I think this shows a level of irresponsibility on Huckabee’s part. It simply adds credibility to Romney and takes away from Huckabee, at least in the majority, unbelieving community. However, in the minority population of evangelical believers, we are standing around high fiving one another, winning a small battle and losing the war.Look, Mormonism is a cult, cut and dried. I know that, you know that. But when one enters into the public arena of politics and is attempting to win the Presidency, he or she needs to act more responsible than Huckabee did. He needs to let other people talk about those issues. Let the Jim Whites of the world do that. This shows a huge lack of understanding and professionalism on Huckabee’s part whether one agrees with his statement or not.By the way, who is Jim White and what weight is he supposed to have in any argument?

    Posted by me | December 13, 2007, 10:42 pm
  13. >I think Huckabee’s question is from some common apologetic critiques’s of Mormonism. But the relationship between Jesus & Lucifer (according to Mormonism) is no different than my relationship to you, or to any other human.

    Posted by Jacob | December 13, 2007, 3:47 pm

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

From the Vault

Friend of Grace

Photobucket
All articles © 2007-2011 by the respective authors of the Conservative Reformed Mafia. All Rights Reserved.
%d bloggers like this: